X-Message-Number: 7242
Date: 01 Dec 96 04:36:42 EST
From: Paul Wakfer <>
Subject: Re: Help for Prometheus

This is in response to Dave Pizer's posts Cryomsgs # 7230 and 7231

Again, I will begin by thanking Dave for his ideas and information.

>1.    Create a steering committee. [plus much more detail]

Dave, I don't believe in the efficacy of committees. Too many times in the
past, I have personally done an enormous amount of work and sometimes spent
an enormous amount of money, all to have it warped, wasted, and misused by
some committee or someone else actually in control. I simply am not going
to do that again. Furthermore, every detail of the way that I have set up
the Prometheus Project is to make it a much as possible follow the model of
the for-profit corporation which has created so much wealth for this
country. In addition, I have tried very hard to design things so that the
pledgers don't simply "give away" their hard-earned money only to have
someone mis-spend it (in their estimation), since I would not want that
done with my money. Currently, I function as CEO of the Project simply by
right of having started it and done all the work. I have a number of people
(and now you are one of them) from whom I seek advice and to whom I have
shown that I often accept that advice. But I believe, just as with any
successful enterprise there must be one ultimate decision maker. In
successful businesses boards of director's make very few and strictly
limited decisions. Otherwise it has been found that chaos, stagnation and
market failure surely follow. If a committee such as you suggest were to
gain control of the Project, then I, for one, would withdraw my pledge,
because I would then be quite certain that the Project would fail. One the
other hand, if someone comes along and started working with me on the
Project and shows that they can do it better than I can and are also
determined to see it through and to uphold the principles upon which its
design it based, then I will be the first one to suggest that they take
"control". 

     In actual fact, since all my pledgers (except a very few) are known
and there has been no money collected, there is really nothing to have
control over. As the person doing the management of the Project pledge
campaign, I exist only by the approval of the pledgers and anyone else who
might wish to also start promoting it and collecting pledges. What you
appear to be asking is that I continue to do all the same work that I am
doing but that I give up all decision making about *what* I do to some
committee of supposedly more effective people. Dave, if this is your advice
then I must respectfully decline.

     In addition, if these supposedly more effective people wish to help
with ideas, time and effort then they are totally free to do so now. I
don't see why they need to be organized in the non-productive form of a
committee. I believe that I have shown that I am receptive to ideas and to
making changes when they clear are beneficial for the Project. Hell, they
can even make their own terms for their own pledge collection methods. Hey!
Then we could have competing pledge terms and collection methods. Sounds
good to me.

>However, the president should be one of the most respected and 
>nicest people in the cryonics movement.  A diplomat is needed to be the 
>leader, one who has the standing to be able stop any 
>misunderstandings before they start. Look for someone like Bob Ettinger or
>Steve Bridge (or both of them).

Again, I don't see why this has anything to do with a committee or
"control" over something which by its nature has no control possibilities.
If Bob or Steve or anyone else wish to start fund raising or pledge
collecting for the Prometheus Project on what ever terms they wish that
would be great! But I will still be pledge collecting on *my* terms (or I
will change if their terms seem to be better for the success of the
Project).

>The main theme is that one can not go out and promote an idea and raise 
>money for it unless one has pledged themself.

This I totally agree with. That's why I started off the pledge campaign
with a personal $10,000 per year pledge even though I can ill afford it.

>2.  Write a simple and concise business plan.  Not more than 2 pages. If 
>the plan it too complicated, many people will not read it.

I am familiar with business plans. What you are referring to is usually
called the "executive summary". The details *do* need to be there, but they
are separated from the summary of them in a portion which the financial and
legal advisors of the "executive" will study. They problem with this idea
is that I still need details to write even the summary so that is will
contain anything but "boilerplate". I don't yet have technical people on
board to produce these details and I am not about to insult the
intelligence of anyone, wealthy or not, with a "boilerplate" business plan.
If I did have the necessary technical detail on the Project to write a
proper business plan then I would be asking for actual money now instead of
just pledges to show that funding the Project is feasible. This is what I
referred to as my "chicken and egg" problem. Maybe you didn't understand
the metaphor?

>Although you have emphasized many times that people only have to make 
>pledges and they can back out if they don't like the plan, that statement 
>has a negative effect on some potential contributors.
>
>Some potential contributors won't get involved because they won't take the
>existing pledges seriously because the existing pledgers can easily back
>out.

This is a good point and I'm sure that is it true. However, I believe it's
one of those "damned if you do and damned if you don't" sort of things. I
believe that the path I have chosen is the best under the circumstances,
but as I said before others are very free and welcome to try other methods.
There is now way to change the terms of the existing pledges except by
canvassing each individual pledger which anyone is free to do.


>Other potential contributors don't like the policy of making a pledge
>(even thought they can later back out) without a concrete business plan
>and simple research plan.

Yes, I know this and as I have stated, it can't be helped at this time
unless you know how to talk some scientists into doing more work for the
Project and writing up detailed plans.

>Yes, I know you have said umpteen times they can back out, but many of the
>wealthy and successful people in cryonics became that way because they 
>don't ever back out.  They make their plan first and examine it from many 
>directions, tweek it, alter it, scrap and rebuild it, and then when they 
>have the plan where it "feels" good, they proceed with full commitment 
>and no thought of backing out.


Actually, this is exactly the process that I *have* been applying to the
pledge campaign. For the reasons already stated it cannot be applied to the
Project plans themselves.

>Other potential investors might be afraid that even thought you have said 
>they can back out (and I assume you implied or said somewhere) and there 
>will be no attempts to embarass them if they do back out,  (In other 
>words, "no questions asked!"),

Yes, I have so stated and implied and intend to honor.

>in reality they will be embarassed if they feel they have to back out
>because they don't like the final plan.

Yes, I am sure that this is so for many.

>So show it to them in front.

I sincerely wish that I could. I have done so as much as I am able.

>3.  Your existing pledgers are your best potential supporters. Develop a 
>plan to raise the money involving [snip] those existing pledgers who will
>volunteer.

I do have some people helping me in various capacities (and now you also).
I don't like to "bug" people too much. It will only turn them off. These
are all intelligent, moral people. They can judge better than I what is the
best use of their time to contribute to their own happiness. I have asked
for help. They know that they are welcome and will be given as much freedom
to run their own show as possible if they wish to help. I respect my
pledgers far too much to try to "push" them any more.

>Get a list of wealthy cryonicists and have wealthy existing pledgers
>contact the prospects.

I have already asked where to get such a list. If I get one then I will use
it effectively, possibly as you have described.

>  Try to find matches in some area for assigning the communications.

It certainly is a good idea to have pledgers of certain work or other
category areas contact people in like areas. I will keep this in mind.


>Don't always insist on the big investment on the first contact.  It is ok
>to ask softly for a contribution, but if the prospect says "no"  then let
>it go and the best the solicitor can do is thank the prospect for
>listening and leave the door open.  Perhaps in a few months the solicitor
>can contact the prospect again.

All good advice. Maybe I sometimes come off pretty "hard sell" on the Net,
but if anything, in person, I err on the side of being too "soft".

>Perhaps the [snip] most dedicated pledgers might want 
>to make small donations to underwrite the expenses of travel, information 
>gathering, and operations during the money raising period.

Actually, there are one or two (besides myself) that are doing so. I
believe that I can get sufficient funds for reasonable promotion expenses.

>You might even 
>raise money for a full time person to man the phone and do telemarketing. 

If I were convinced this would be cost effective then I would do so. I am a
*very* frugal and thrifty person. I want the costs of raising the pledges
to detract as little as possible from the funds to actually execute the
project. So far I believe, I have done quite well in that regard. I really
don't want that to change unless absolutely necessary.


>4.  Form a neutral nonprofit organization to  allow those people who 
>don't want to make an investment to make pledges of tax- deductable 
>donations.  Also the use of a 501 (c) 3 would allow people to make 
>Charitable Remainder Trusts and Unitrusts which might be a big tax benefit
>to them.

Frankly, I think that the Life Extension Foundation, not being a cryonics
organization at all, is about as "neutral" as you can get. However, I guess
others think differently. Just yesterday, I was informed that Brian
Delaney, who started the life-extension newsgroup was forming a 501(c)3
corp to fund life-extension research. I have asked him if he will accept
pledges to the Prometheus Project. I will also consider forming another
501(c)3 corp if I start getting more pledgers who wish to donate.


>5.  Another approach might be to form the company and try to sell stock
>and get pledges for future sales first.  Then you could employ
>prosessional stock sales persons to try to go outside the cryonics
>community.

This has all been considered and was even recommended by some of my
business advisors. My decision is that it would be too much potentially
wasted initial money (which *I* certainly don't have) before we even have
any idea that the funding of such a project is possible. One of the
problems with this "standard biotech approach" is that the salable products
of the Prometheus Project are quite far out and can not be see by anyone
but cryonicists and other life-extensionists to be potentially very
profitable.

>This might be enhanced by combining the research of Prometheus to also 
>perfecting frozen organs for transplant.  If Prometheus makes billions in 
organ transplantation along with learning how to save our lives, so be it.

Others have been, and are, trying that market, mostly unsuccessfully. I
don't want to dilute the Prometheus Project goal with too many extraneous
other purposes.

>6.  Hire a professional fundraiser to raise money for the nonprofit arm.

I do not believe that the cryonics and life-extension community will pledge
sufficient funds to pay for such large fundraising costs.


>Some of the trueisms in raising this much money are:  Good information on 
>potential investors,

Please help supply me with some.

>leverage the solicitations with a committee, involve the whole (cryonics)
>community by having the committee be representative of all organizations, 


I have already addressed the committee idea. I believe that the whole
cryonics community *has* been involved through CryoNet, sci.cryonics and
articles or notices about the Prometheus Project in all cryonics
newsletters and magazines. It would certainly help if I were allow to
publish additional Prometheus information in all cryonics publications and
if all cryonics organizations would allow me to mail to their members (at
my expense). Any proposed member of your proposed committee is free now to
pledge, to do pledge raising for the Project and to write supportive
articles to his/her organization's membership/subscribers.


>in-person solicitations,

If I had a list of cryonicist to present myself to in-person.

>enthusiasm, when one thing ain't workin' try something else, and hard
>work.

I believe that I am doing as much as anyone could in these departments.

>No body said living forever would be easy.

So are so right!

>It seems from  Paul's last few postings that he is getting a little 
>discouraged.  This is to be expected after all the hard work he has done 
>and the high hopes and importance of the Project.   This might be a good 
>time for those existing supporters to give Paul some public recognition to
>spur him on and help him catch his second wind.

I really appreciate the sincerity of these words, Dave, and I *am* doing
better now (partly thanks to you). Several good things have happened in the
last week.


>If the cryonics community were to totally get behind the Prometheus
>Project and Paul were willing to hand it off to an impartial committee of
>cryonics leaders from all organizations,

I have already stated sufficient reasons why this would be a mistake and
isn't necessary.


>this might become the start of a new area of diplomacy within the cryonics
>community.  An area like the old days when there was more cooperation and
>we all worked together.  An area where we our criticisms to ourselves and
>concentrated on saving our lives. An era where survival was more important
>that ego.

When I started the Prometheus Project I very sincerely hoped that it would
do this and for a while it looked like it might. That is the most
fundamental reason why I did *not* want to involve any organizations
directly. I wanted the Project to be of and for the "brotherhood" of all
those wanting so earnestly for vastly extended life. Somewhere things went
wrong, maybe it was me not being sure enough that this was possible, I
don't know. Maybe it is not too late to truly join together to save the
lives of every one of us and many more.


>Perhaps by forming a committee to promote Prometheus that committee can 
>also migrate into a forum to privately settle disputes between various 
>people and organizations.

This would be great, but I don't think that it needs to involve Prometheus.

>In my opinion, one of the main reasons for the slow down in membership 
>growth for the whole cryonics movement is the constant bickering between 
>various cryonicists.  I think if we could get a handle on that, cryonics 
>prospects would once again look with joy about signing up.
>If we could end the bickering, the movement could again create the 
>enthusiasm to attract more people.

I very much agree. But I believe it is even more important to have a
"working product" to sell.


>You might try to get a committment from the potential scientists that when
>you reach a certain amount, they will come public and support the project 
>in a high-profile way and speak to the public to help raise the remaining 
>amount. 
>In other words, try for a committment of, say, 60% of the goal.  Ask the 
>scientists to agree that if you reach 60% of the total goal, they will 
>publically speak for the plan.  (And, they will write the plan at that 
>time).

The problem is very much more complex and many faceted than that. But I
will try. I had hoped to have the plan produce by the time I reach 50% and
then to go after the few wealthy people I do know about. But I am less sure
of getting the science and business plan produced now than I was.


>When you get to 60% of a goal, something happens and the goal begins to 
>look like it will be reached.  (this is also the time when you have to
>work the hardest.  The last part of the money is usually the hardest to
>raise). 

Generally, this would be true, but I believe that for the Prometheus
Project there will be a large "band-wagon" effect.

>At that time, you go back to the existing pledgers and some of them will 
>raise their pledge.

I would not push this. But many have voluntarily stated that they will
raise their pledges when they see more details.

>By the way, why not have a gathering for the existing pledgers twice a
>year.

This is an excellent idea that I will try to implement.

>I hope this helps.

Very much, thank you.


-- Paul -- Phone: 416-968-6291  Pager: 800-805-2870

HELP TO ACHIEVE - PERFECTED SUSPENDED ANIMATION WITHIN 20 YEARS!

Check out the Prometheus Project web site at URL:
http://www.prometheus-project.org/prometheus/


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