X-Message-Number: 7525
From:  (Thomas Donaldson)
Subject: Re: CryoNet #7510 - #7521
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 14:26:09 -0800 (PST)

Hi again!

This is a (perhaps delayed) response to the postings about "very selfish
cryonicists".

As many readers may already know, there is a pattern in many myths about
people who receive immortality (look at Greek mythology, for instance).
First of all, they are GIVEN immortality rather than seeking it for themselves.
And second, perhaps most important for its bearing on the "selfish cryonicist"
idea, whatever agencies give them immortality do so because they have shown
some kind of remarkable ability, either great bravery, great strength,
great intelligence/wisdom (it's not clear to me that the Greeks made that
distinction) etc etc etc. Lesson: You don't get immortality if you're just
an average person, with average traits and ordinary abilities.

Enter immortalism and (heavens!) cryonics, stage left. We say that the only
thing you need to acquire immortality is 1) special drugs or 2) cryonic 
suspension. No one will give you an IQ test or test your understanding of
semialgebraic geometry or general relativity before we make you immortal.
No one will ask that you show a record of virtue exceeding that of Mother
Theresa. Just be frozen (or take the (as yet undiscovered) drug).

I would suggest that one reason for this public attitude about cryonicists
is exactly those myths, remembered unconsciously. Most people would think
that you must be somehow special to become immortal. Hence, if Steve Bridge
or Charles Platt say that they want to be suspended in the hope of becoming
immortal, they are both seen as extreme egotists, highly selfish to boot.
How else could they expect to receive such a high reward?

I don't claim this is the only reason, though I do note how people tend to
form their ideas in patterns similar to those of past myths. It is thus 
that we have the notion that someday Nanotechnology will bring a millenium
free from pain, toil, trouble, etc etc (haven't I heard that idea somewhere
else?) --- and don't come back to me, guys, and tell me that this time it's
TRUE!). 

As for countering it, my best suggestion is that we state frankly, whenever
appropriate, that we think EVERYONE should become immortal. It is their 
RIGHT as a human being. And of course that the purpose of medicine SHOULD
BE immortality.


And one more comment to Joe Strout:

As someone who actually faced the problem of dying, if only for a while, 
I must add one comment. I felt no physical pain, due the nature of my
problem (an Astrocytoma Grade II). However I did feel great anxiety and
depression --- a different kind of pain entirely. And short of sedating
patients, I see no way in which simple painkillers no matter how powerful
can deal with the emotional response, most especially because it is 
(unlike many other cases) a very realistic one.

And to have that response lifted for real reasons felt marvellous. If 
anything I want to live now 10 times more than before, and I'm glad to 
have been so lucky as to have survived.

Clearly I must be an extreme egotist, yes? ;-).

			Long long life to all,

				Thomas Donaldson


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