X-Message-Number: 755
Subject: CRYONICS Re: Unanswered ACS Policy Questions
From: (Edgar W. Swank)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 92 19:46:02 PDT
This is a response to Message #738 by Steven Harris. I won't quote
too extensively, so please refer back for reference.
Edgar Swank:
Thanks for clearing up Alcor's policies re whole-body suspensions.
Your reply was quite complete and I see where my incorrect impressions
came from.
Steve:
Hmmm. Does that mean you let your prospective customers who
can't afford the whole body suspension fee just toodle off and
die before you'll let them know of an alternative? Or will they
be told only of the "brain-only" alternative?
Edgar:
Anyone who deals with ACS (and I consider myself more of an ACS
spokesman, albeit unofficial, than a TT spokesman) will be informed of
all options available. This includes head-only, brain-only, which
apparently can be even cheaper than head-only, and burial in artic
permafrost, which is cheaper yet.
However, I have no reason to believe that even TT will allow someone
dealing with them directly to "toodle off and die" if they make it
clear they can't afford a whole-body suspension.
Steve:
Very curious! Perhaps you can explain? What is there about
the facility that makes any difference [in treating HIV+ patients]?
...
Edgar:
First, the OR space in Pearmain is quite cramped. It's necessary, I'm
told, to move stuff around before and after a suspension to make room.
I understand that Art was also given a list of changes to make and
equipment to procure by our contract surgeon to make the facility
safe(er) for work with HIV+ patients & patients with other contagious
diseases. I'm afraid I can't give you any more detail than that.
Art may choose to respond directly. If not, perhaps a report will
be forthcoming. There has been mention of the problem in the
ACS minutes which I just uploaded. As I get more info I will post it
here.
Steve:
Ahem, I'm sorry, but there's no "naturally" about it. For
your information, the brain is perfused by not only two carotids, ...
Edgar:
Well, thanks for that commentary (I guess). It's way over my head.
I'll have to leave that for Art to comment on. We are aware that
we are, at the moment, deficient in our ability to offer complete
services to HIV+ or other seriously contagious patients, but we are
working on correcting the problem.
Steve:
I see. Do your HIV neuro patients know they're going to be
"perfused" by a mortician? With, I presume, not a heart-lung
machine, but rather an embalming pump? Maybe at the standard 25
pounds per square inch pressure? (That ought to blow their
minds). And for this ACS charges more than Alcor does?
Edgar:
Please wait for the technical report being prepared by Jerry White re
the brain-only suspension of his mother. Also refer to the
preliminary discussion in the Meeting Reports and Immortalist reprints
just posted. My understanding based on conversations with Jerry is
that he is quite satisfied with the quality of the suspension.
I also understand that the procedure was very economical.
Edgar (previously):
I'm afraid I can't provide any more info on the nursing home
patient who refused standby (or whose relative refused standby).
Steve:
Why not? Did you not ask? Did you ask and they wouldn't tell
you?
Edgar:
No, I didn't ask. ACS policy is to respect the decisions of our
members and not to question their motives or second-guess them after
the fact. What's ALCOR's policy?
Edgar(previously):
I also can't provide any info on the last ACS patient at
least at this time. Presumably a report is forthcoming. In-
cidentally, I've forwarded the Alcor report of their last suspen-
sion (A-1260) to ACS. I think it's a good model of the level of
detail such a report should have.
Steve:
I think so too, but since we can't get you to amplify any on
your previous reports, I don't see any point in your aspiring to
do better in the future.
Edgar:
Why do you respond to a compliment with a gratituitous insult? As I've
already said, reports on Jerry White's mother and the latest
suspension are forthcoming. They will be published first in the
Immortalist, for our *paying* members, and shortly thereafter I will
post them here. Kindly withhold your criticism until you have
something to criticize.
Steve:
Then I'm curious-- whence comes your enthusiasm and boosterism
for an organization you've apparently lost contact with to such
an extent? How do YOU know WHAT they're doing these days?
Edgar:
I read the ACS news published in the Immortalist. I "reprint" this
information here. It might be nice if ALCOR were to "reprint" some
articles from "Cryonics" here.
I also read the ACS Minutes (Meeting Report) which I also post here.
I asked a question about ALCOR Directors meeting minutes several
messages back. Do members receive any? I certainly haven't seen any
posted here (excepting some ALCOR affiliates). To use your words,
"silence is deafening".
I also frequently attend ACS dinners, where I can converse informally
with the people running ACS now.
Less frequently I can call the ACS office to ask specific questions.
I can also exchange files with their office computer, hence the
source for the meeting reports, Immortalist reprints, & calendars
I post.
Finally, every year I *vote* for the leadership of ACS. I understand
this privilidge is not granted to Alcor members (except with their
feet).
Steve:
If the smartest man in the world has a modem, we'd all like to
have his thoughts.
I have to say, though, that in the mean time this "can neither
confirm or deny" stuff about your president's (lack of) cryonic
suspension arrangements makes your organization look deceptive
and silly, sort of like the CIA talking about South America.
Doesn't exactly inspire trust. I agree with Steve Bridge, ac-
tually. I also think you'd probably do better to just stay quiet
about this matter; anything more you say will only be cause for
more laughs.
Edgar:
I disagree with your and Steve's assessment. First, I can say that
Avi is a "full" member of ACS because that is a requirement for voting
and holding office. So if he's not completely signed up for
suspension yet he certainly intends to be.
Although I was one of (perhaps the) first person(s) to complete signup
for suspension with ACS/TT, I'm told that it's not uncommon for
otherwise valuable, dedidated, enthusiastic members to procrastinate
completion of suspension arrangements sometimes for years. This is
unfortunate, sometimes tragic. One of my fellow founders of ACS, our
first President Dr. Harris, never made suspension arrangements & he
is now dead and buried.
Nevertheless, I regard Avi as one of our most valuable members,
regardless of his suspension status.
As far as amusement I'm sure anything I say pales in comparison to the
exchanges I see concerning the Alcor move to Arizona.
--
(Edgar W. Swank)
SPECTROX SYSTEMS +1.408.252.1005 Silicon Valley, Ca
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