X-Message-Number: 7568 From: (Thomas Donaldson) Subject: Re: CryoNet #7559 - #7564 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:01:40 -0800 (PST) Greetings! The new tales about the Vissers' activities most certainly do not increase my confidence in the worth of their cryoprotectant. I began by feeling sympathetic to people dealing with the various establishments (yes, including the scientific establishment), and with no knowledge at all of even the name of the cryoprotectant the Vissers proposed. The recent postings about itsxicity make me very interested in what I will see at the Alcor Science Festival a week from now. And I shall try toatch Visser's experiment VERY closely. I am not a magician, and do not k any magic tricks, but now that I know more about the cryoprotectant a lot looks WRONG WRONG WRONG... It would be nice to have a known magician present (I'm quite serious here!) because they can detect tricks and sleight of hand that others, even scientists, cannot. HOWEVER I find it deplorable that Dr. Harris decides to revive old feuds in the same message. Yes, Alcor does suffer from a lack of biologically oriented people, and that may lie behind its decision to go with Visser --- though she did "show" them her experiment with rat hearts, and that may have fooled any unschooled witness. Of course, the REASON why Alcor lacks biologically oriented people right now (and as I understand they're trying hard to get them involved!) is that those who were formerly with Alcor left it and went off to found a society of their own, and (unfortunately) have spent time carping at Alcor. Such feuds, even if not violent, do not make the other side (Alcor) feel entirely trusting of what people such as Harris and Darwin say, even when both Harris and Darwin are quite honestly trying to be helpful. Allegations about the motives of the Alcor Board serve no one unless Dr Harris has some good strong proof of them --- and Alcor's policy with respect to Visser does not look to me to be sufficient. If at all possible, I'd like Steve Harris or Mike Darwin to view Visser's experiment for themselves. She either can or cannot freeze rat hearts; just what we can conclude from her experiment remains open... though Steve Harris has given good reasons to believe we cannot extend it even to human hearts. I will finally say, looking back on how these events developed, that secrecy about the solution used, and how it was used, has ultimately served NOBODY. I only learned its identity at the A4M Conference, from Saul Kent, after trying several times to find out by other means. And by that time those "in the know" had already noticed its toxicity. I have no formal biological background at all, but have been studying and reporting on the subject (as relates to cryonics) for at least 20 years, and would have looked it up myself if I had known what it was months ago. If you try to keep some knowledge to yourself in a tight little group, you may find out in the end that your special knowledge turns into a special falsehood. I also want to thank Mike Darwin once more for his very useful and informative postings. And I'll also point out that it was Steve Harris, not Mike Darwin, who put the negative statements about Alcor into his message. Long long life to everyone, Tho Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=7568