X-Message-Number: 7623 From: Brian Wowk <> Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 00:39:43 -0600 Subject: Reply to Zigi Visser (Zigi Visser) writes on CryoNet: >With regards to claims made by Kent et al on amounts of $50,000 >spent on research per month, not using the "Visser cryoprotectant" >compounds under patent in view of new research, etc:- > >Cryopreservation Technologies has the following public announcement >to make: > >We have for the past two years, over 1000 pure compounds and >and additional 7015 combination of compounds under patent application >as cryopreservation agents/solutions. >This is as a direct result of the original "Visser method" >cryopreservation techniques. > >Any attempt of patent hi-jacking as a result of "unauthorized" >information and subsequent "conditioning" which we have seen, >will be opposed and contested in court. Patent highjacking? Conditioning? I believe past posts have made clear that the primary interest of 21st Century Medicine is cryopreservation of the central nervous system by VITRIFICATION (supercooling without ice formation), the principles of which were articulated by Greg Fahy almost 20 years ago. Furthermore, Bob Ettinger has made it clear on CryoNet that the Visser Method is NOT vitrification! To summarize, past posts make clear that: 1) The target organ toward which 21CM is directing most of its efforts is the brain (an organ which you have stated you have no interest in cryopreserving). 2) 21CM is interested primarily in vitrification, not freezing. 3) 21CM has no interest in peralkylamides (whether they are the "Visser agent" or not), having already examined this class of compounds when Doug Skrecky suggested DMF for cryopatients on CryoNet in 1995. Thus there appears to be no overlap at all between your research and 21CM research. Now, if you are indeed patenting 1000 compounds for cryopreservation use (which comprises nearly the entire known inventory of organic molecules that readily penetrate the cell membrane!), then it is likely there will be overlap between these agents and agents that 21CM is interested in. In fact, its also likely you will overlap some of the 150 cryoprotectants already known to cryobiology. However as your patents presumably refer to the use of these cryoprotectants under the specific protocol known as the "Visser method", others will not infringe on your patent unless they too use the "Visser Method." Re speculations on agents used in the Visser Method: Perhaps you have heard the saying, "Nature abhors a vacuum." If you claim a major scientific breakthrough to the world news media without any scientific details, and then withhold disclosure of scientific details for years, it's reasonable to expect that during that time interested parties will assemble all available information (including rumors), do their best to infer scientific details, and possibly be successful. There is nothing unethical about this. >Confusing the unsuspecting with the AIDS/Cryo sedation is an eye >blinder, and is intended with ulterior motives and is taken as such. Many people feel that your media disclosures of multiple organs successfully cryopreserved, and sci.cryonics claims that full suspended animation can now be achieved in as little as two years are an "eye blinder". As to "ulterior motives", certainly it is becoming difficult to deal with these claims dispassionately. This past summer, Steve Harris and I expressed (understandable) scepticism about claims that entire rats had been recovered from liquid nitrogen. Olga Visser then responded with the most vicious personal attack on me I have encountered in ten years on the Net. The style and tone of the attack was completely outside the bounds of normal human relations (let alone science), and was excessive even by cryonics standards. Similar personal attacks on others have followed. Now maybe against all odds you do have a useful new treatment for AIDS, and maybe you have important new ideas in cryobiology. However breaking all the normal disciplines of disclosure that other scientists adhere to daily is not a good way to convince others. And slapping people across the face when they express ligitimate questions or concerns does not help. There is no conspiracy here to supress important work, steal work, or eliminate research competition. There is merely a combination of acute scepticism and negative feelings (among some people) for the reasons I have stated above. The best way to recover from this unfortunate state of affairs is for everyone to cease making insults and threats, and instead engage in a dialogue of the scientific issues involved. If you are not ready to engage in such a dialogue, then you should not make extraordinary claims until you are. *************************************************************************** Brian Wowk CryoCare Foundation 1-800-TOP-CARE President Human Cryopreservation Services http://www.cryocare.org/cryocare/ Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=7623