X-Message-Number: 8056 Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 17:32:06 -0700 From: Paul Wakfer <> Subject: Re: Help: Communication: Organize (Make Friend Not Associate) (Mike C.) wrote: > Help us help each other. Necessary, because none of us can continue to stay alive without help. >Transhumans, extropians, metamorphosists, and cryonicists unite! You could also have included the CRSociety, and Longevity-digest lists and the sci.cryonics and sci.life-extension newsgroups. While they all want indefinitely extended life-span (although I am not sure this is true of all transhumanists), the different lists are appropriate because of differences in emphasis and personal priorities. Often, those dedicated to one list (and consequent activities) will be quite determined that those dedicated to the other list (and its activities) are sadly misguided, at best, in their piorities. Usually, those active on the lists are very inactive about actually *doing* something which will increase the chance of the list's ostensible purpose being fulfilled. ie. the *real and effective* purpose of the list is to *talk* about (and therefore *appear* active) and to *evade* the fact that one is not actually *doing* anything *effective* about that which one is professing to devoutly desire. >I place my faith in life. I place any faith that I allow myself, in *myself and others* who are *doing* all that we reasonably can to give everyone a reasonable chance to stay alive. >Any who place faith in same belief and practice as >I support my cause and I should treat with respect and friendship. Not if their similarities in personal philosophy are restricted to just wanting to continue to stay alive indefinitely. Respect for that desire, yes, but unfortunately, some with that desire may be so antithetical to ones other major philsophical viewpoints that one cannot possibly call them friends. >I do not want to be unknown person posting messages! >Let us know who we are! >We probably do not know each other; that does not help us. >Tell me who you are; I want to know you. First, it is doubtful that one person can ever truly *know* another. We have enough trouble knowing *ourselves*. Second, message correspondence *is* a reasonably effective first step in getting to know someone. Live and dynamic phone conversations would be next. In person discussions and *doing* things together are best of all. Finally, getting to know someone better can actually have a negative effect. I may be much more able to be respectful and cooperative with someone, it I *don't* know that their personal philosophy is in such conflict with mine. > Let us know what you think should be done, what need be done. >What are your problems?. I think that most people *are* doing this in the messages that they post. For me, it means giving all your time and money that is not absolutely necessary for your current life extension program towards research to perfect suspended animation. This is my first priority simply because I believe that it has a better time-to-achievement vs cost relationship than any other potentially life-span extending research (including, anti-aging/rejuvenation, nanotechnology, uploading, etc). It should be the fail-safe/backup (to avoid *death* - the end of any possible life) to these other methods which will be needed to allow *continued* life. *After* the fail-safe/backup is *effectively* in-place, it will be time to put all ones efforts toward solving the fundamental problems of continued life. >Tell me what you want; >if I were your slave for life what would I do? I have no need or desire for slaves. As a slave, you would not be fully *alive*. I desire *life* in myself and others. Therefore, I would rebuke your efforts and ask you to set yourself *free*. >Help me help you. You can help me best, by becoming convinced of my priorities and doing, in your own best way, whatever you can to further them as a free person and an associate. >Let us get organized to do more than talk, to control our lives. >Let us work together and cooperate. In the ways described above, I totally agree. >What are we doing? >I learn and teach; I want to learn what you want me to teach you. Sorry, but most of the knowledge I desire cannot be *taught*. It can only be *learned*. It will not help *me* much if *you* learn it. >What can we do? >I can be filled with doubt and not be able to answer this question, It is sincere and inspiring that you admit it. Many do not. >though there is no thing I can not do if I try hard enough. I used to think the same thing. Unfortunately, will-power and determination are not enough. If a large number of us couple "try hard enough" with all our other positive attributes, we may yet succeed in vastly extending our lives. Anything less is likely to fail. >What can we not do? >I can not be immortal yet and it makes me sad, afraid, and angry. Well spoken! Just don't get so "sad, afraid, and angry" that these negative emotions cause you to be impotent about finding a solution as is the case for so many. >Let us learn how we could do it, then do it. By all means, yes! >We need a plan; >if you listen to me I will give you one. >Follow me, >you will be led; >Sit on your ass, >you will be dead. >You choose and you choose now! This sounds too much like the "come-on" of a guru/cult-leader for my taste. >If I get one person motivated and bring their brain to life >we will be one step closer to our goals. True if their brain is not already alive. However, this might be taken as an insult to many of us whose brains *are* alive and who have been "trying hard" for many more years than you have. >WAKE up! >We are DYING! >Our DNA is being TORN APART by free radicals! >Bacteria, virus, and fungus are DEVOURING our cells! >We are eating TOXINS! >People are STARVING! >People are KILLING each other and themselves! >Natural DISASTER is known world-wide! All very true and very sad. And something that every one on these lists knows. >How much time is wasted? >...too much; >stop playing games and get serious; >this is our life we are talking about! >Am I ALONE trying to stop this? >HELP ME HELP YOU! No, you are not alone. I and a few others are "trying our hardest" and being as effective as we can. In my view, your exhortation is appropriate and reasonable, although, when I did less than this at the beginning of the Prometheus Project, I was roundly criticised for insulting people and questioning their motives and priorities. -- Paul -- Paul Wakfer email: phone:909-481-9620 pager:800-805-2870 HELP TO ACHIEVE - PERFECTED SUSPENDED ANIMATION WITHIN 20 YEARS! Check out the Prometheus Project web site at URL: http://www.prometheus-project.org/prometheus/ Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=8056