X-Message-Number: 8275
Subject: The End of Ettinger
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 09:07:54 -0400
From: "Perry E. Metzger" <>

> From: 
> 
> I, on the other hand, think that probably the world is strictly deterministic
> in essentially the LaPlacian sense. People are mechanisms because mechanism
> is all there is; as far as I know, no alternative or supplement has even been
> PROPOSED except for "chance," and to my mind that is a meaningless concept,
> or non-concept. Quantum "randomness" is equivalent to the hand of God
> intervening a zillion times a second, instead of just once in the beginning.

Oh, Joy. Now, unless I miss my guess, Mr. Ettinger is going to go up
against Bell's Theorem. Having sallied forth against the rules of
logic and probability theory, this was the next logical step. Anyone
who can say "Damn the evidence, full speed ahead" isn't going to be
stopped by a mere mathematical theorem! I'll leave it to others to
discuss this with the Ettinger Mechanism, however, as I'm about to
retire from the field.

> For reasons I won't repeat now, it is entirely possible to have
> intelligence, or apparent intelligence, without feeling,
> i.e. without life as we know it.

I must therefore sadly draw the conclusion that you are an exemplar of
this phenomenon that you describe.  Now that we have this notion that
you can have two entities that behave identically from the outside,
one of which is conscious and one of which isn't, I've been
enlightened. Before, I used to give you the benefit of the doubt, but
now I'm afraid I'll have to go with my predjudice and assume you
couldn't possibly be conscious.

I will therefore end this discussion. I have no interest in debating
with an unconsious machine -- a mere construct -- such as yourself!

If, of course, you can find me some convincing proof that you are not
merely a life-imitating mechanism but actually conscious, I'll
continue discussing things with you. Until then, however, I'm just
going to have to refuse to continue. I don't want to waste time
arguing with something that isn't conscious, you see, and I have no
evidence that you are conscious. I see that you've been cleverly built
to *appear* conscious, but now that I know better I need devote no
further time to you.

Perry

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