X-Message-Number: 8275 Subject: The End of Ettinger Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 09:07:54 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" <> > From: > > I, on the other hand, think that probably the world is strictly deterministic > in essentially the LaPlacian sense. People are mechanisms because mechanism > is all there is; as far as I know, no alternative or supplement has even been > PROPOSED except for "chance," and to my mind that is a meaningless concept, > or non-concept. Quantum "randomness" is equivalent to the hand of God > intervening a zillion times a second, instead of just once in the beginning. Oh, Joy. Now, unless I miss my guess, Mr. Ettinger is going to go up against Bell's Theorem. Having sallied forth against the rules of logic and probability theory, this was the next logical step. Anyone who can say "Damn the evidence, full speed ahead" isn't going to be stopped by a mere mathematical theorem! I'll leave it to others to discuss this with the Ettinger Mechanism, however, as I'm about to retire from the field. > For reasons I won't repeat now, it is entirely possible to have > intelligence, or apparent intelligence, without feeling, > i.e. without life as we know it. I must therefore sadly draw the conclusion that you are an exemplar of this phenomenon that you describe. Now that we have this notion that you can have two entities that behave identically from the outside, one of which is conscious and one of which isn't, I've been enlightened. Before, I used to give you the benefit of the doubt, but now I'm afraid I'll have to go with my predjudice and assume you couldn't possibly be conscious. I will therefore end this discussion. I have no interest in debating with an unconsious machine -- a mere construct -- such as yourself! If, of course, you can find me some convincing proof that you are not merely a life-imitating mechanism but actually conscious, I'll continue discussing things with you. Until then, however, I'm just going to have to refuse to continue. I don't want to waste time arguing with something that isn't conscious, you see, and I have no evidence that you are conscious. I see that you've been cleverly built to *appear* conscious, but now that I know better I need devote no further time to you. Perry Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=8275