X-Message-Number: 8575
Date:  Wed, 10 Sep 97 17:26:35 
From: Mike Perry <>
Subject: Uploading

Olaf Henny, , #8571, writes:

>Because we would have no doubt the capability of that chess 
>computer (Deep Blue?) to evaluate probable results of any action we
>take to n extensions.  Spontaneity would be replaced by prior
>evaluation.  The result would be a high degree of risk avoidance,
>which would result from knowledge of the likely result prior to taking
>any action.

It appears, Olaf, that you are worried uploading would necessarily 
transform people into unemotional automata, able to make fantastic 
calculations along the lines of Deep Blue (only possibly much greater 
yet) but with no excitement or joy, or at best only subdued and 
subhuman versions of these. As I see it, the possibility of 
uploading would increase various *options* but without the
connotation that one or another path *must* be chosen. If you
wanted, I see no reason why as 
an upload you would *have* to have any superior knowledge, ability, 
etc. along the lines of Deep Blue or whatever. You ought to be able 
to stay your old self. 

[When I wrote,]

>>What do we know now that would preclude 
>>life as an upload being *more* exciting, not less exciting than it is
>> now, in a meat body? If emotions reduce to brain states, and the
>>brain is emulated in a computer, could we not have the same
>>subjective experiences in that form as here? Plus, a computer
>>emulation, one would think, would be more amenable to enhancements of
>> various sorts. This might involve "deeper," "more meaningful"
>>experiences than are possible in our flesh-and-blood state. Certainly
>>nobody has ruled it out.

[Olaf responded,]

>Maybe I am more concerned with the physical aspects of living and less
>with the cerebral, but I can just not see how the power of
>pre-evaluation of actions can lead to more excitement in real 'life'. 
>With simulations it is different.  They are a game and any
>pre-evaluation of actions could be suspended for the duration, since
>any harm is unlikely.

Once again, Olaf, you are too focused on machines of today with all 
their limitations. If you didn't like "the power of pre-evaluation of 
actions" you, as an upload, could probably just pass on that 
option. (Why not?) An upload, as I see it, would not in 
general be just a "simulation" but another way of taking part in the 
"real world"--with the details to be worked out in due course.
(Right now, consider yourself an upload in your brain. 
We are talking not about something fundamentally different, but a 
new, presumably better type of "upload," something people will choose 
if and only if they are convinced it is better.)

It seems to me that we will always have an advantage 
in being "in the world" and not 
"just a simulation"--we must always have control as far as possible 
over our own destiny. But that would not preclude an existence in 
which our present wetware is replaced by artificial devices--assuming 
we *choose* this form of existence because we think it is better. A 
person, for example, could be uploaded into an artificial brain in an 
artificial body, but still be in control of that body. Another possibility is 
more than one person "inhabiting" a large computer--there the 
advantages and disadvantages would have to be weighed carefully. 

As for skiing, with the right sort of body and brain one could 
experience the same feelings while doing it (and I'm not talking 
about a simulation here, but the real thing only done by you in your 
new, artificial body, thinking with your artificial brain). In 
addition, the artificial components could be such that you wouldn't 
get as tired or be hurt as bad if you hit a rock or tree. On the other 
hand, I wouldn't rule out a simulation of skiing, or whatever the 
participant might want, in that large computer--for those inclined to 
try it out. Again, there would be more options. Some of those no 
doubt would add up to deep pitfalls, and some may indeed fall in, but 
overall I favor more options over less. In this world we don't have
enough.

Mike Perry

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