X-Message-Number: 9055
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:46:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Ben Best <>
Subject: Kenneth B. Storey's lecture at the University of Toronto

   Kenneth B. Storey, a Canadian cryobiologist from the Institute of
Biochemistry at Carleton University in Ottawa spoke at the University
of Toronto on Sunday, January 25th. His topic was the freezing of
Canadian frogs, but he also spoke about why cryonics doesn't work.

   The blood of the wood frog Rana sylvatica would normally freeze
at -15^C were it not for the fact that these frogs manufacture 
nucleating proteins which catalyze the formation of ice at -5^C --
thereby giving the frogs "control" over the freezing process. Freezing
travels through the blood stream and ends with the core organs -- the
heart & liver (which are also the first to thaw & reanimate upon 
rewarming). Wood frogs have proportionately "massive" livers that
rapidly inject huge amounts of glucose into the bloodstream at the first
sign of freezing. Their cell membranes contain a special glucose 
transporter which brings glucose into the cells at a very rapid rate. The
frogs also have an unusual form of insulin that regulates best at 
5^C. The glucose in the cells prevents osomotic dehydration and 
contributes to vitrification.

    Dr. Storey stated that the brains of the wood frogs become completely
electrically quiet upon freezing -- with a flat EEG -- and fully recover
activity upon rewarming. With some amusement he said he had frozen frogs
while mating and that upon rewarming the frogs continued mating. But he
discounted the idea that this has any relevance to consciousness because
it has not been possible to do learning experiments with these frogs --
it has not seemed possible to *teach* them anything. 

    The presentation ended with Dr. Storey explaining why cryonics -- as
practiced today -- cannot work. In essence he said that cells are destroyed
by intracellular & extracellular ice, the large human body is subject to 
freezing stress, fragile bits are lost, dehydration of cells occurs due
to osmosis and the cryoprotectants used are too low in permeability to 
enter cells in appreciable quantity. He said that those interested in
human cryopreservation would be best advised to give their money to his
research lab rather than waste the money on cryonics.

    I could have used the occasion as an opportunity to do some flag-waving
for cryonics, but instead I concentrated my effort on learning as much as
I could. I asked a question during the question period, and joined the 
crowd around him following the official question period for more questions.
He said that no animal or insect is 100% frozen -- wood frogs are frozen
70% and no more. I asked him how the unfrozen 30% is distributed, and he
told me that it adjoins the inner & outer sides of all cell membranes to
protect them. When I asked him how sperm, blood cells and hypocellular
tissues like heart valves & skin are frozen to liquid nitrogen temperature,
he said that DMSO and (to a lesser extent) glycerol replaces the water 
surrounding the cell membranes to provide the protective layering. I asked
him about his statement in his SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN article that wooly-bear
caterpillars and Siberian salamanders are completely frozen. He said that
both claims have been disproven. He even mentioned the problems Dr. Greg 
Fahy had with Siberian salamanders -- which I found ironic insofar as 
Dr. Fahy had gotten the salamanders on the basis of Dr. Storey's article.

   The subject of cryonics came up repeatedly from the questioners 
surrounding Dr. Storey, so I finally made my identity known as President
of the Cryonics Society of Canada and an Officer of CryoCare Foundation.
For the most part I was non-confrontational, although I did become irritated
by the suggestion that Hitler would have sought to be cryopreserved. I stated
that there is no more connection between Naziism & cryonics than between
Naziism & heart transplants or any other medical procedure. Dr. Storey was
quick to discount the idea that cryonics is a medical procedure, although
he accurately stated the view that cryonicists believe that nanomachines
will repair the damage. When someone raised the issue of cryonics 
contributing to overpopulation, Dr. Storey expressed doubt that cryonics
would ever appeal to more than a tiny fraction of the population -- a view
with which I concurred. St. Storey said Brian Wowk seems to be the most 
scientific of cryonicists and asked if I agreed. I said that Brian is very
scientific, but said that he is not the only cryonicist/scientist. I said
that serious scientific work is now being done because serious money is 
finally being devoted to research. 

    Dr. Storey said that if cryonics research succeeds, his own work will
become trivialized, and he would lose funding. Apparently, an interest in
organ cryopreservation on the part of funding agencies accounts for a portion
of his grants. He clearly had negative views of what it would be like to 
wake-up in a future society. Not only did he foresee a totalitarian culture,
but he didn't seem to like the idea of having to go "back to work". Like so
many others, a negative view of the future and of life colors his attitude
toward cryonics. He seemed friendly to me, however, and suggested that we
exchange business cards. 

    Dr. Storey's website is at:  http://www.carleton.ca/~kbstorey


         --------------------------------------------
            Ben Best ()
            http://www.benbest.com/

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