X-Message-Number: 9071
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:12:35 -0800
From: Paul Wakfer <>
Subject: Re: Probability of Revival
References: <>

I have not read Robert Ettinger's CRYONICS: THE PROBABILITY OF RESCUE, but for 
the sake of argument I will completely accept whatever estimates of
revival of the "corpus" of a currently frozen person are contained therein.

As I have argued here and elsewhere many times, however, we do not know if we 
are preserving the mind (the memory and other mental faculties which

constitute your mental individuality) and even worse this is *inestimable and 
unknowable* at present, since current neuroscience is not at a

sufficient level to allow us to estimate it. (Yes, from EM analysis, etc. we may
be able to estimate the chance of restoration of some particular

brain structure. However, neuroscience cannot yet definitely tell us what brain 
structures are essential.)

This is why I agree with Steve Bridge that the possibility of revival is simply 
unknown. But I go even further to maintain that it is  not

calculable, unknowable, and therefore ridiculous to discuss at the present time.

We cryopreserve people or get frozen ourselves, simply to stabilize the body. 
Whether or not current stabilization methods are sufficient to allow

reversal of the transition away from homeostasis which took place prior to 
stabilization and as part of the process itself, we simply do not and

can not know. However, we *can* make reasonable conclusions that burial or 
cremation do *not* allow such a reversal. Since no other methods to

avoid such clear non-reversibility are available, at the moment there is no 
other choice than cryonic suspension to prevent clearly irreversible
changes from homeostasis.

Please, let us waste no more time on this "probability of revival" nonsense. The
only thing which makes any sense to spend ones thoughts and time

on, besides looking out for the current patients, is deciding what is the best 
path to take in order to develop and implement methods of

stabilization which we *know* can be reversed and to do our utmost to reach that
goal. Only when we get there will it be time to concern ourselves

with estimates of whether, in particular cases, the damage occurring prior to 
stabilization will allow full recovery.

-- Paul --

 Voice/Fax: 909-481-9620 Page: 800-805-2870
The Prometheus Project -- http://prometheus.morelife.org
Perfected Suspended Animation for Patient Stabilization
until Cures for Their Terminal Diseases are Available

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