X-Message-Number: 9085
From: "Berrie Staring" <>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #9079 - #9084
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:15:24 +0100

Dear all,

Thanks for the positive reactions.
Let me state again: I do have a lot of 
respect for all the people involved and I don't
claim to have the answers. Also, as Mr Ettinger
said I am new and not aware of the things that 
have been tried in the past. However I feel confident
that I can contribute in many ways (in a humble respect).

Maybe the term "shares" wasn't chosen well. It implies
for profit and that was not what I was aiming at. I think
"Foresight Institute" is what I would call a good example.
Also IMHO Transhumanism could contribute, although
this could have some too much StarTrek like aspects,
that could "kill" the goal. 

Also, I am fully aware of the fact that you can't please
everybody. For example a choice could be: to not aim for
the "spiritual" people. This a huge slice of the cake, but 
they also have the most irrelevant objection. IMHO
the 20 - 30 generation, living in this digital age are the
ones who can make it happen.

I think there could be an organization that has identified,
the key aspects of the future e.g.:


Company's working in those area's could pay a fee to 
a foundation: let's call it for now:
"Real-Transhumanism" RTH
Real as in, not so out of this world type of future
predictions. So, e.g.: yes, body modification.
no, regarding uploading. Of course you can speculate
about it. But I think for now it scares the hell out of people.

If "we" keep the goals modest, we have a fair chance of 
getting companies to pay a contribution, in return for
visibility and an active lobby (around the world) for the
new technical/genetic ways.

I think people are scared and they will become it even more.
If you read the scientific journals today, they are full of breakthrough
after breakthrough: Cloning, Body-parts from animals, genetic decoding,
etc..etc... They just can't cope with it. They don't have the scientific
background to put things in perspective and will be strongly for the
alternative: shut it all down.......
And since these people vote in large quantities, they will have a 
major impact on our politicians. Who are themselves, also
not aware of what is going on.

I agree with Mr Ettinger, that there is a good chance that you 
all will grow anyway, since this future is coming anyhow.
Still I think "we" all could benefit from a RTH, to guide this
process and educate people on what is happening.
This is an exciting age. There is a realistic chance to actually
make a giant leap towards a better world. Not just because
a naive and idealistic bloke like me claims it, but because
all the new developments point in that direction. IF....

If we can guide it a bit, and bring it in the right proportions
to the people.

If I look for example on the Extropy list, there are so many
gifted people speaking up and although nobody agrees fully
with each other it always clearly shows, that with some 
common sense, we can work it out. Can't we harness this
power in an organization like RTH. Ask them all to be a bit
more modest and "realistic". Invite people with the relevant
Ph.D. and standing to give their vision, and translate it to 
some realistic optimistic visuals.

I think that the time is with "us". People have a lot
of questions and are looking for answers.
Maybe it sounds to much as a religion, but I am
confident that "rules" and principles like:
"Best to do it so" of Max More, and Transhuman
principles like mentioned on the site of Anders Sandberg,
can be "sold" to the world, because they hold a fundamental
truth, that is rarely seen in other "religions"

"we" have the strongest of all arguments in our corner:
You have nothing to lose!
We don't even have to exclude "spiritual"-thoughts, since an 
other principle is "freedom and respect"
IMHO, you can't lose. The only problem is negative media,
but that in itself is not a reason, not to try it.

I am more then willing, if it's wanted to write a "business-plan"
together with my friends. We are 5 realistic Dutch guys and
we already offered our help to many others in the "transhuman-field"
So, this offer still stands. For me personal. I have more energy then
money. But since I think it so important, I free all my spare time for
it. Should it be needed, I am also more then willing to give up my 

I am realistic: I see the problems and I know *I* could fail. However,
1000nds of organizations have already proven that it can be done.
Anyway, I hope this is of any use...... I am looking forward to hear
your opinions.

Paul: I think it's the other way around: There is a beautiful future
coming, let's grab it, and if you "might miss it" we have a tool called
suspend animation, that give's you the opportunity (not the certainty)
that we will revive you in this future..................

Best regards,


=====================================Berrie Staring  Email : 

Co-founder: Transcedo  Dutch >H Society
Site: http://www.dse.nl/~transced/
" So, you own the seed........ It will not become
  a Bonsai, unless you let it grow and cut wisely"

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