X-Message-Number: 9231
Date:  Sun, 01 Mar 98 12:15:52 
From: Mike Perry <>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #9225

Bob Ettinger writes:

> a) Most commentators on identity (or survival criteria) simply make

> assertions, which they seem to feel have self-evident validity. In my opinion,
> their validity is highly questionable, for specific reasons, which I have
> spelled out from time to time. The assertions in fact merely reflect the
> speakers' impressions or preferences. The issue is not what seems right or
> feels right or has plausibility; the issue is what can be PROVEN correct. So
> far, as far as I can see, the answer is--nothing.
>
What I'm wondering is, will there ever be any real "proof" on some 
issues, no matter how much information we have. Are memories 
important to survival? (Here I will generalize "memories" to "information 
of one sort or another that one retains about one's past.") It seems
that some are sure they are, and 
others are not. To some of us that *are* sure (I include myself 
here), those who don't feel their memories are important have a sort 
of illness, related to a suicidal impulse, which we hope in one way 
or another may end up cured in the future. And there are certain 
reasons I take this position, related to the logic of what it seems 
reasonable to call "surivival"--it is not simply an opinion in a 
vacuum. (In fact there is some interesting mathematics on this, which 
I have been working on for years but still haven't completed.)
However, I don't think I can "prove" that memories are 
important to someone who lacks any feeling at the gut level that 
his/her own memories are important. And I wonder, once again, whether 
any amount of knowledge will decide the issue. Or let's take another 
issue, Can a device substantially different from a human be 
conscious? Could any amount of logical argument ever convince a 
determined doubter, no matter how much mathematical equivalence could 
be demonstrated between, say, a functioning human brain and this 
other construct?

A final thought: those who *do* survive longterm, "in some reasonable 
sense," will be the ones whose opinions on these issues count.

Mike Perry

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