X-Message-Number: 9586
Subject: Re: Why Don't People Sign Up For Cryonics? (CryoNet #9576)
Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 14:16:52 -0500
From: Will Dye <>

In Cryonet #9576, Saul Kent <> asks:

>         I would like to hear others on this forum give their 
> opinions on the number one reason people don't sign up for 
> cryonics.  I not only want to know why you think people don't sign
> up, but I'd like you to state your evidence for this belief.

I'd like to add:

	-- Cryonics is seen as a subsitute for traditional religion.  

My own experiences with family & friends support that speculation, but
of course this is anecdotal, not the result of a national survey or
anything.  It's worth noting that several postings here on CyroNet
have indicated that cryonics was chosen by the writer in part because
they had no faith in a traditional, religion-style afterlife.  The
continued association of cryonics with "immortality" or "immortalism"
also seems to deepen the link, even though efforts are made to
distinguish "physical immortality" from "religious immortality".  I
still think that efforts to distinguish the two are not widely
working, nor are they likely to work anytime soon.  I agree that the
two *are* separate, but it appears that the general public does not
see it that way.  Perhaps a well-coordinated public relations drive
can change that, but it's a task that I don't see as worthwile, given
the problems we already have.  It just seems to be easier to drop the
connection between cryonics and immortality.  Those who are keen on
immortalism may well come to cryonics anyway, since for the moment
they have little else to turn to.  Cryonics can ill afford yet another
memetic hurdle to jump over.  The counter argument, of course, is that
watering down the cryonics message will not change any minds among the
general public anyway, and it may cause us to pass over some would-be
immortalist die-hards (pun intended) that might otherwise be
recruited.  I can offer no substantial evidence one way or the other
on the matter.  

Interestingly, even those who do not like traditional religions are
still unlikely to sign up for cryonics.  Perhaps they don't want to be
associated with an endeavor that is trying to do something that
religions offer: "life" after "death".  Yes, yes, I realize that
cryonics is trying to do it via rational means.  My point is that the
cryonics/religion link, once in the mind, may put irreligious people
in a mindset that makes cryonics harder to sell.  Again, I can only
offer anecdotal evidence: when I brought up the subject of cryonics at
work, the person who was most critical was the person who was also the
least religious.  His feeling seemed to be that people should "just
plain die", and that the best thing we could do was to accept it,
without resorting to dubious measures (like religion) in a frantic
attempt to avoid the inevitable.  Since he saw religion as an attempt
to avoid death, and since he saw religion as a source of much of the
trouble in the world, then perhaps it put him in a negative mindset 
when cryonics was mentioned as a response to the subject of dying.  

As for religious folk, I can again only offer anecdotal evidence.  I
have yet to encounter the statement "Because I don't think that it
will work", or the equivalent, among the many of my fellow
Evangelicals with whom I've discussed the issue.  Most of the
discussion centered on the religious implications of the matter, not
the technical question of feasibility.  Nonetheless there seemed to be
a general sense that such things would be possible someday (barring
catastrophic Divine intervention).  This opens up some intriguing
possibilities.  

I guess I'll also suggest:

	-- Traditional forms of dying have an extensive,
	well-entrenched "support network", not only of
	equipment and organizations, but also of ideas,
	traditions, and deeply-ingrained social and cultural
	memes.  Many of these ideas are directly and
	indirectly given to us from early childhood on, and
	arguably date back to prehistoric times.  Cryonics,
	at least in part, upsets many of these entrenched
	structures, and this can cause *genuine* pain and
	suffering to the loved ones we leave behind.  The
	traditional mechanisms of mourning and condolence
	are upset.  The "growing up" that occurs when we
	confront our own mortality, a critical component to
	normal maturity, can be seriously challenged.
	Cryonics has yet to be fully incorporated into this
	network.

I know that Saul asked for support evidence for each of our 
points, but I'm running out of time, so I need to sign off.  
I hope that these ideas nonetheless add some value to the discussion.  

--Will

William L. Dye       |  It's O.K. to be anal retentive, as long as all
Software Engineer    |  of the anuses that you retain are meticulously
  |  sorted, arranged, categorized, & cross-indexed.

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