X-Message-Number: 9586 Subject: Re: Why Don't People Sign Up For Cryonics? (CryoNet #9576) Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 14:16:52 -0500 From: Will Dye <> In Cryonet #9576, Saul Kent <> asks: > I would like to hear others on this forum give their > opinions on the number one reason people don't sign up for > cryonics. I not only want to know why you think people don't sign > up, but I'd like you to state your evidence for this belief. I'd like to add: -- Cryonics is seen as a subsitute for traditional religion. My own experiences with family & friends support that speculation, but of course this is anecdotal, not the result of a national survey or anything. It's worth noting that several postings here on CyroNet have indicated that cryonics was chosen by the writer in part because they had no faith in a traditional, religion-style afterlife. The continued association of cryonics with "immortality" or "immortalism" also seems to deepen the link, even though efforts are made to distinguish "physical immortality" from "religious immortality". I still think that efforts to distinguish the two are not widely working, nor are they likely to work anytime soon. I agree that the two *are* separate, but it appears that the general public does not see it that way. Perhaps a well-coordinated public relations drive can change that, but it's a task that I don't see as worthwile, given the problems we already have. It just seems to be easier to drop the connection between cryonics and immortality. Those who are keen on immortalism may well come to cryonics anyway, since for the moment they have little else to turn to. Cryonics can ill afford yet another memetic hurdle to jump over. The counter argument, of course, is that watering down the cryonics message will not change any minds among the general public anyway, and it may cause us to pass over some would-be immortalist die-hards (pun intended) that might otherwise be recruited. I can offer no substantial evidence one way or the other on the matter. Interestingly, even those who do not like traditional religions are still unlikely to sign up for cryonics. Perhaps they don't want to be associated with an endeavor that is trying to do something that religions offer: "life" after "death". Yes, yes, I realize that cryonics is trying to do it via rational means. My point is that the cryonics/religion link, once in the mind, may put irreligious people in a mindset that makes cryonics harder to sell. Again, I can only offer anecdotal evidence: when I brought up the subject of cryonics at work, the person who was most critical was the person who was also the least religious. His feeling seemed to be that people should "just plain die", and that the best thing we could do was to accept it, without resorting to dubious measures (like religion) in a frantic attempt to avoid the inevitable. Since he saw religion as an attempt to avoid death, and since he saw religion as a source of much of the trouble in the world, then perhaps it put him in a negative mindset when cryonics was mentioned as a response to the subject of dying. As for religious folk, I can again only offer anecdotal evidence. I have yet to encounter the statement "Because I don't think that it will work", or the equivalent, among the many of my fellow Evangelicals with whom I've discussed the issue. Most of the discussion centered on the religious implications of the matter, not the technical question of feasibility. Nonetheless there seemed to be a general sense that such things would be possible someday (barring catastrophic Divine intervention). This opens up some intriguing possibilities. I guess I'll also suggest: -- Traditional forms of dying have an extensive, well-entrenched "support network", not only of equipment and organizations, but also of ideas, traditions, and deeply-ingrained social and cultural memes. Many of these ideas are directly and indirectly given to us from early childhood on, and arguably date back to prehistoric times. Cryonics, at least in part, upsets many of these entrenched structures, and this can cause *genuine* pain and suffering to the loved ones we leave behind. The traditional mechanisms of mourning and condolence are upset. The "growing up" that occurs when we confront our own mortality, a critical component to normal maturity, can be seriously challenged. Cryonics has yet to be fully incorporated into this network. I know that Saul asked for support evidence for each of our points, but I'm running out of time, so I need to sign off. I hope that these ideas nonetheless add some value to the discussion. --Will William L. Dye | It's O.K. to be anal retentive, as long as all Software Engineer | of the anuses that you retain are meticulously | sorted, arranged, categorized, & cross-indexed. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=9586