X-Message-Number: 9601 Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 21:29:09 -0400 From: Saul Kent <> Subject: Opinions On Why People Don't Sign Up I asked people for their opinions on why people don't sign up for cryonics (9576) and several people responded. Here are my comments on their responses: den Otter says (9576) that he thinks that "lots of people (most?) are more or less afraid of cryonics because it's death-related and 'unconventional'. Mostly I've heard arguments like 'who wants to live again/forever', 'one life is bad enough' or 'it's not natural' or 'I believe in some (vague) life after death' etc." I agree that there are many people who aren't especially interested in cryonics because they're unhappy and don't look forward to the future. I don't think it's profitable even to attempt to recruit such people because they're not motivated to do anything about living longer. I also think that people who truly believe in a religious concept of life-after-death aren't good candidates for recruitment right now either, although I think many of them will come around when cryonics acquires more credibility. As far as those people who don't sign up because cryonics is unconventional or death-related, these too will start to come around when cryonics becomes more associated with doctors and medicine than with funeral directors and death. Andrew S. Davidson contends (9580) that a strong factor which keeps people from signing up is that they don't think it's possible to restore people to life after "death". I agree. The fact that we have to freeze people *after* they're declared "dead" has been a major obstacle to growth in cryonics since the inception of the movement.. Not only because it makes it difficult for many people to accept the fact that it's possible to restore a "dead" person to life, but also because it makes it difficult and expensive to conduct the standby necessary to start the freezing process as soon as possible after "death". One solution to the problem would be if laws such as the one passed in Oregon to permit assisted suicide would become widespread, but that's unlikely to happen at this time because of staunch opposition to assisted suicide among right-to-lifer's, physicians, and a significant segment of the general public. The best solution to the problem would be the achieve- ment of suspended animation, but that's still a long way off. How- ever, it may become possible to convince society that assisted "suicide" (or assisted cryonics) should be made legal if we can provide scientific evidence that freezing or vitrification preserves memory in laboratory animals. That's one goal that might be achievable in the relatively near future...perhaps within a few years. Davidson also notes that the media often focus on the "high" cost of cryonics, and that "the perception that freezing is an impossibly expensive procedure" may be a major factor in preventing people from signing up. This perception is easy to overcome for relatively young and healthy people by simply pointing out that using life insurance to sign up for cryonics is *not* expensive. Of course, you have to get their attention first before you can convince them of this. One way would be for cryonics organizations to put together a brochure specially designed to deliver this message. Such a brochure could not only point out that cryonics is affordable for most people, but also that there are significant costs associated with the alternatives (burial and cremation). Finally, Davidson notes that he is not yet signed up himself, and gives several reasons for this: first, because of a "lack of confidence in the current organizations"; second because of a "general feeling that I have plenty of time"; and third, because nobody is "banging on my door trying to make a sale." I want to point out first, that Davidson is *exactly* the kind of prospect that the cryonics organizations should be making efforts to recruit. He accepts the value of the idea and he knows something about it. There are a good many others in the same boat and, I believe, that virtually all advertising and marketing efforts in cryonics should concentrate on locating and signing up such people. (In Davidson's case, we don't have to locate him; he's already located us). At a time when few people see the value of cryonics, and even fewer people can be *made* to see the value of cryonics, it is absolutely imperative to focus our marketing efforts on those who do. In other words, we have to mine the high-grade ore because other types of ore are of such low grade that it isn't profitable to mine them. As I see it, when we start gaining more credibility for cryonics through published research findings, we will gradually increase the amount of high-grade ore to mine, as more and more people who already see the value of cryonics come out of the woodwork. Joe Strout (9583) reveals that the minds of his parents "are completely closed to the idea, even hinting at the possibility of considering it runs immediately into a thick wall." Yet, he really does believe "that they think it will work." He then speculates that "the reason they don't sign up is mainly that they couldn't face the derisive opinions of their peers. They want to fit in with their friends and neighbors, and to sign up for cryonics would clearly mark them as different." I think this is truly a *major* reason why people don't sign up for cryonics...fear of embarrassment or hostility among their peers. I think that may be the *only* reason Larry King hasn't signed up. I was = on his radio show in Miami about 30 years ago, and he was the most postive talk-show host regarding cryonics I had ever (land *have* ever) encountered. I was on his show again during the Dora Kent crisis and he was very supportive and positive then. When Mike Darwin and Brenda Peters appeared on his show to debate cryonics with a cryobiologist, King's attitude was clearly slanted towards cryonics, and he appeared ready to sign up right then and there =2E..especially when Brenda was talking to him. However, Larry King has never signed up with any cryonics organizations, largely, I believe, because he thinks it might hurt his career to do so. After all, he's now made it in a very big way and has access to virtually every celebrity in the world. He's now very firmly lodged in the establishment, and I don't think he wants to do anything to rock the boat. The most extreme example of fear of peer pressure stopping someone from being frozen is the case of Gerald (Gary) Feinberg, an eminent physicist from Columbia University, who was the first person who showed up (at a dingy bar in Queens) at the first cryonics meeting I ever organized in 1965 (before the word "cryonics" had been coined by Karl Werner). Gary was completely sold on cryonics in those days; he even published an article ("Physics And Life Prolongation") about it in Physics Today, and brought a number of his friends into the movement. A couple of years later, however, Gary dropped out of cryonics completely. Since it was right after he had gotten married, I assumed that his wife wasn't favorable to the idea, and that this influenced him to drop out. I lost touch with Gary for many years, until I paid him a visit at Columbia a few years ago, where he had become Chairman of the Dept. of Physics. Gary told me that he was still interested in cryonics and wanted to get back into the movement to a limited degree. By then, he had two grown sons, and he thought that both of them might be favorable towards cryonics, although he hadn't spoken to them about it yet. I then told him that I had always assumed that he had dropped out of cryonics because his wife was against the idea, and asked him if that was the reason. He then shocked me (and I'm not easily shocked) by telling me that he had *never* spoken to his wife about cryonics becaused he ASSUMED she would be against it, and that he had dropped out because of this assumption! I then suggested that he speak to his wife about it to see if she was REALLY against cryonics. He said he didn't think he could do that, but would consider speaking to one of his sons about it, who would then, he thought, be willing to broach the subject with his wife. About nine months later, I read in the New York Times that Gary had died of cancer. He was not frozen. I guess he never got around to speaking to his wife about it. Clearly, the long-term answer to fear about offending ones' relatives or friends by signing up for cryonics, is to make cryonics a more credible practice through research and validation by mainstream scientists. However, a short-term answer might be to inform the person(s) who aren't signing up because of the fear of peer pressure that they can sign up *confidentially*, and that their sign-up can be between them and their cryonics organization. Perhaps that might work with Joe Strout's parents; perhaps not...but I think it's worth a try. In message 9584, Joe Strout responded to my concern that there aren't enough young activists in cryonics by discussisng his (and his wife's) situations as relatively poor Ph.D. candidates. He points out that the reason he joined ACS (the American Cryonics Society) is because they offer a student discount, and rightly advises *all* cryonics organization to do the same. He then goes on to say that "the best thing I can do for cryonics right now is to complete my neuroscience degree." I agree completely. Neuroscientists will be absolutely critical in developing suspended animation, and in working towards potential methods of reanimation. When Joe gets his doctorate and a good job, either in academia or clinical medicine, he will be in a *much* better position to contribute to research and/or education regarding cryonics than he is today. Will Dye (9586) says that his own experiences with family and friends lead him to add: "Cryonics as seen as a substitute for traditional religion" as another reason why people don't sign up for cryonics. He suggests dropping "the connection between cryonics and immortality" as a means of possibly defusing the confusion and conflicts between religion and cryonics. I don't believe that this would make a significant difference, but I have what I believe to be a better suggestion. When I was at Alcor, we put together a brochure (the original draft was written by Derek Ryan) aimed at religious people, explaining why it is reason- able to believe in an afterlife *and* sign up for cryonics as well. ("Heaven Can Wait"). We also put together a program in which religious people who had signed up for cryonics would raise these issues personally with people who had reservations about cryonics for religious reasons. As I recall this approach worked fairly well to the extent that it was implemented. I think it might work even better today, = although I would wait for an increase in the credibility of cryonics in society before implementing it. I thank those who responded to my request for reasons why people don't sign up for cryonics, and welcome further discussion on the subject. ---Saul Kent, CEO 21st Century Medicine Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=9601