X-Message-Number: 9602 From: Olaf Henny <> Subject: CryoNet #9582-84, Robert Ettinger & Joseph Strout Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:28:47 -0700 Robert Ettinger said in CryoNet #9582: >I am by nature the worst kind of salesman. I'm just not a "people person," >although I have learned over the years to correct this defect to some extent. >But through the application of simple common sense, courtesy and >consideration, I have led quite a few prospects into the fold. If I can do it, >anybody can. It just takes work. I think the main problem with protagonists of cryonics is, that we are all *rationalizers*. Skilled salesmanship is built on triggering emotive responses. I have struggled with this problem through much of my life. Although I have had excellent results in 'selling' major real-estate developments to municipal councils and project development plans to corporate developers, both entities which are responsive to rationalization, I have always been a complete washout, when it came to selling on emotion. The ever present an impatient with ignorance (and I thought well camouflaged) "Can't you grasp that this is to your advantage?" seemed to be imprinted on my forehead in bright neon letters for all but me to see. We have all been raised with the life cycle of birth - taxes - death supplemented by family traditions, heirlooms passed through generations inheritance, - time to be born, to blossom and to fade, to make room for our children. This has become over hundreds of generations so deeply entrenched in our emotional make-up, that it takes individuals with strong logic reasoning capabilities to escape that cycle of emotional entrapment. Back to selling: The car salesman who casually flips - or more politely - hands you a set of keys with the "take it for a spin" suggestion does not want you to check out the 0 - 60 or the short brake distance with secure tracking. S/he wants you to take it to friends and family, for you to hear their 'aahs' and 'oohs' and to sense their little twinges of jealousy. *That* is what sells. Now, with the general mind-set of the public in the last days of the 20th century, you are not likely to hear a lot of 'aahs' and 'oohs', when you tell them, that you just have signed up for cryonics. There remains hope, that James Halperin's THE FIRST IMMORTAL will have an emotional impact. The book has been criticized by some of being a bit too syrupy as far as the family revival and reconciliation is concerned, but I think this was a necessary counterpoint to the relatively brutal process of cryonics preparation for freezing, at least to those who have previously not been familiar with the process, especially as neuro- preservation is concerned. One concern is, that science fiction readers, who are the primary audience for this book are so conditioned to encounter in their books projections of technologies, which are usually much too far in the future to have any application in our present day's life, that it may not sink in to many, that cryonics is a technology, which is already available, albeit in a very crude form, which may well some day be likened to the early attempts at flight with flapping wings "aircraft". To Joseph Strout's Messages #9583 and #9584: >Saul Kent asks us (in Message #9576) what we think is the #1 reason people >don't sign up, and our evidence for thinking so. So I'll present my >experience, limited though it is. My wife and I are signing up. We've >explained this to our parents, who are in their late 40s. Both of my >wife's parents have read Jim's "The First Immortal," and my parents have >read most of my articles on mind uploading. All four parents say they >understand our decision, and when we ask, they admit that it will probably >work. But they don't want it for themselves. Joe, I don't know how much you have stressed with your two sets of parents your theory of uploading, by reading the neural positions in still frozen, ultra-finely segmented brain slices and then uploading the inferred information into a clanking construct, - not a very enticing prospect for the faint-hearted and a difficult prospect for the unconvinced to warm up to. :-) >Now, we haven't been able to pin down exactly why this is, but they simply >won't consider it for themselves. Their minds are completely closed to the >idea; even hinting at the possibility of considering it runs immediately >into a thick wall. Yet I really do believe that they think it will work, >mainly because we say so; we are more educated than our parents in >scientific and technical things, and they respect and trust our opinion on >such matters. You are very lucky, that you have your wife "on site", and your parents are still relatively young. If they lead a relatively healthy lifestyle you could easily have another 40 years to convince them, and hopefully the general attitude of society will have warmed up to freezing ;-) by then. If I think back on the change of attitudes over the last 40 years, I find that it is an entirely different world now. >I'm 26, and in graduate school pursuing a Ph.D. in neuroscience. My wife >(Shelly) is 23 and pursuing a Ph.D. in computer science. We have both >decided to sign up for cryonics; I have been enthusiastic about it for >several years, though Shelly was rather reluctant and basically just going >along with it for my sake until she read "The First Immortal" (thank you, >Jim!). Unfortunately, as far as cryonics is concerned, my wife and I are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum. I am strictly logical in my approach to life, with not an ounce of intuition and my wife is strictly intuitive with ...- well, she might read this. ;-) While we have worked this out fairly well, respecting each other's views (the damnedest thing is, that she is right about half of the time, even when her point doesn't make any sense) ;-), with respect of cryonics we have hit a brick wall so far. >I also believe that our parents are fairly typical...(deleted)...My inlaws are >practicing Catholics, and my parents are nonpracticing Methodists. Nothing >unusual here. There is a lot of tradition to overcome. Best, Olaf Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=9602