X-Message-Number: 9935
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:47:24 -0400
From: Bozzonetti <>
Subject: Re: # 9924, cryonics swaps +

Cryonics swaps and the tragedy of commons + answer to T. Donaldson #9924.

>To Yvan Bozzonetti: Here is a suggestion. Buy life insurance
>outside of France. There is a cryonics group in England, for instance,
>so I doubt that English companies would object. You might have to
>go there several times first to fill out the application, then to
>have the physical.

Well, On january 1st 1999 all european banks and insurance will be able to
work on all of E.U. So I have only six months to wait to have UK insurance
in France. But I doubt that will solve all problems. Given the french law,
a life insurance for a cryonics organization may be challenged in all the
E.U.

>Second, keep careful watch on your health (you probably do that
>already, but this is special).

I am a big (passive) smoker!

> What you do not want to happen is
>anything sudden. Years ago, when I was living in Australia I read
>a book (its statistics are probably now outmoded) which concluded 
>that in over 80% of cases there was warning of several weeks that
>someone was about to die.

I would not bet my life on that...

> So you prepare to go to England then,
>and ideally get other French people interested so that they can
>act on your behalf to get you there if you can't do it yourself then.

 I assume that advance warning implies a very deadly illness in an advanced
state. Would you think cryonics remains a forefront  subject in that case?

>If you have the money to pay for a suspension in advance, then you
>need not bother with the insurance. But the issues involved in at
>least getting to England will remain.

At least with CI, there seems a solution on the continent, the big problem
is the french law.

>Finally, if I understand you properly, you want to donate money to
>fund research in return for a suspension when you need it. That's
>a hard one, mainly because most of the money for suspension is NOT
>used at the time. It is put into a fund and the income from that
>fund pays the ongoing costs of suspension. None of the cryonics
>groups is likely to be large enough to do what you want; and if
>you found someone who wanted to donate that much for research then
>you'd have to provide something in return for them to donate the
>money to your suspension while you donate the required amount to
>research. My own best suggestion is to do what I described above.
>                               Thomas Donaldson

        I think there is more than one way to see at the problem. Assume
for example the cryonics organization XYZ opens a credit of $ 100 000 to
the research organization Alpha.  XYZ gives no money at that level. Now,
Alpha tells to everyone, me for example: Well, if you give us some money,
we send you a certificate with a given value for the cryonics organization
XYZ.  More: After on year we divide our $ 100 000 credit by the really
collected sum and that give you the swap value of each of you dollars.

        Knowing that, I give only $ 1 for research and wait one year to get
a swap value of $ 100 000. Unfortunately (for me) The Alpha organization
has done some advertising about the scheme and 100 people do the same
thing. Now my single dollar buys only $ 1 000 in swap. Well, to counter
that I give $ 100. Now each dollar given to Alpha brings only $ 500 in
swap, but I get $ 50 000 with my $ 100 donation. Everybody do the same,
Alpha gets $ 10 000 in donations and distribute $ 100 000 in swaps. Not a
bad investment for me after all...

        Now, I have $ 1 000 in swaps, I know I can do the same the next
year and may be so for five years... That will not amount to a full paid
suspension. A that level I have two solutions: First I drop out and I don't
use my swaps, in that case the money given to Alpha is a simple donation.
Second I buy a suspension service at XYZ. I know my swaps summed over five
to ten years will count for only 10 percents at best of the total sum. May
be nine out of ten people will choose the first solution so that XYZ has
really given $ 10 000. On the other hand it will have sold 10 suspensions,
each at a cost of $ 1 000. If XYZ is CI , $ 1 000 is only 3 per cent of a
suspension fee. If you put another name behind XYZ you fall under 1 per
cent.  I think that a cheap way to gain customers and a good solution to
the choice: Must a cryonics organization invest in research or in member
recruitement? There we have the two with the same money.

        Yvan Bozzonetti.

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